What the Hell Happened to Winona Ryder?


Winona Ryder

She was arguably the actress of my generation.  Or at least she was during my late teens and early 20’s.  And then, she disappeared from the big screen in the midst of a bizarre shoplifting scandal.

What the hell happened?

ryder - lucas

Winona Ryder – Lucas – 1986

Winona Ryder got her start in the 1986 teen cult classic, LucasLucas was one of the better coming-of-age dramas from this time.  Many members of its cast of unknowns would go on to be stars.

Lucas was of course played by the late Corey Haim and the film co-starred the scandal-prone warlock, Charlie Sheen.  Ryder played Lucas’ best friend with an unrequited crush.  Courtney Thorne-Smith and Jeremy Piven had small roles as well.

Everything about Lucas is cliché right down to the slow clap that ended every coming of age movie from the 80’s.  But the cast and execution set it apart.  Ryder’s role was small, but it helped get her noticed for later roles.

ryder - square dance

Winona Ryder – Square Dance – 1987

In 1987, Ryder got her first lead role in the low-budget country music drama, Square Dance which co-starred Jason Robards and Rob Lowe.

Ryder plays a teen from the country who ventures into the city.  No doubt she learns important life lessons.  I haven’t seen the movie myself, so I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of a slow clap.

Odds are you haven’t heard of Square Dance either.  It’s a small movie.  But it showed casting directors that Ryder could play a lead.


Winona Ryder – Beetlejuice – 1988

In 1988, Ryder appeared in Beetlejuice.

Beetlejuice was a transitional film for director Tim Burton.  Pee Wee’s Big Adventure had shown that the former Disney animator could direct a hit film.  Based on the success of that film, Warner Brothers was willing to develop his idea for a Batman movie.  But they wouldn’t green light it yet.

In the meanwhile, Burton began looking at scripts he could direct at a budget the studio would agree to.  He settled on the supernatural comedy, Beetlejuice.  Burton cast Ryder as the goth teen, Lydia Deetz, after seeing her performance in Lucas.  The rest of the cast was filled with actors who would also go on to great success.

Beetlejuice helped save Michael Keaton‘s flagging career.   It gave Burton the clout he needed to make his Batman movie.  Ryder (along with co-stars Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis) didn’t get as much credit for Beetlejuice‘s success.  But it certainly helped get them noticed.  And it was the start of a partnership with Tim Burton.

ryder 1969

Winona Ryder – 1968 – 1988

In 1988, Ryder also appeared in 1969.  That’s the name of a movie.  I didn’t mean to suggest Ryder was a time traveler.

In the late 80’s, there was a wave of 60’s nostalgia that elevated hippies to the level of sainthood.  As a result, Hollywood released a handful of movies starring the 80’s brat pack celebrating the Summer of Love.

1969 starred Ryder, Keifer Sutherland (who went on to star in the hippie-comedy Flashback) and Robert Downey Jr.  1969 didn’t have much of an impact on anyone’s career.  It got mixed reviews and disappointed at the box office.

Next: Heathers

Posted on July 21, 2011, in Movies, What the Hell Happened?, WTHH Actress and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 233 Comments.

  1. lebeau,

    Just some interesting cross-WTHH tidbits for you to mull over, the next time you update this:

    Lost Souls was produced by Meg Ryan’s production company, Prufrock Pictures, initially as a vehicle for her to star in (duh). When she eventually passed, Winona came aboard. I thought I read somewhere that when Lost Souls bombed, it took Prufrock with it, but that doesn’t appear to be the case (though obviously it didn’t help matters any, as imdb says Prufrock’s last movie was in 2002).

    That fascinating NY Times article about Lindsay Lohan and The Canyons reminded me of this nugget: in 2003(?) Woody Allen supposedly wanted to cast Ryder and Robert Downey Jr in Melinda & Melinda, but couldn’t afford (or even get?) the insurance on the two.

    One of the lower-profile films in Winona’s post-shoplifting resume: The Informers (2008), starring potential WTHH candidates Billy Bob Thornton and Mickey Rourke, and Kim Basinger (who’s probably the only bright spot in this otherwise terrible movie).

    Winona supposedly auditioned for and beat out Uma Thurman (among others) for the thankless job of being Kevin James’ wife in The Dilemma (I think EW said that Uma actually “flew herself in” to audition for the role.. if true I guess that just proves how hard it is for 40-something actresses in Hollywood…).


    • Thanks RL. Those are some terrific little nuggets. I will definitely incorporate some of these details next time I update this article.


      • You prob’ly know this already, but one of the horror films Ryder starred in — “Lost Souls,” perhaps — she refused to go “on the road” to promote it (talk shows & the like, I guess).

        Ryder was in one of THE WORST — perhaps THE VERY WORST — movie I’ve yet seen: “The Ten,” in which she passionately kissed a ventriloquist’s dummy. I felt sorry for her, I really did…this was the ONLY movie after viewing it on DVD that I was actually ANGRY at the actors, writers, and directors…in fact (pardon my ego) here is my amazon review of it:

        Have you ever seen a movie so bad that you actually held your head in your hands, shaking it in disbelief? Ever see a movie SO UTTERLY AWFUL that you’ve gained a new level of respect for ED WOOD? Not the biopic about Ed Wood, but Ed Wood himself???

        It has happened. I’ve seen a movie so inexplicably appalling that I’m in favor of mandatory mental competency tests being given to Hollywood directors, actors, and screenwriters before a frame of film is shot. This cinematic cold sore is The Ten. It’s an allegedly comedic collection of short stories “based” on each one of the Ten Commandments [tee hee].

        Let’s see, where to begin: IT’S NOT FUNNY. Not in the slightest. The stories have little or nothing to do with the particular Commandment to which it’s linked…unless, of course, one can truly draw a line from the “thou shall not covet thy neighbor’s goods” ruling and connect it to two guys in prison making the beast with two backs (get the kids out of the room). Here’s a sample of the dialogue, an argument between The Ten’s host/moderator (played by, alas, Paul Rudd) has with his wife (Famke Janssen) in front of gigantic approximations of those TWO STONE TABLETS Moses brought down from Mt. Lebanon or wherever:

        Man: You know what, Gretchen? You know what you can do?
        Wife: Don’t say something you’re gonna regret.
        Man: Go…
        Man: Fly…
        Wife: I’m warning you, Jeff.
        Man: A…
        Wife: Don’t you say it!
        Man [earnestly]: Go fly a kite, Gretchen! Go fly a kite!

        Get a load of this: A street sign reads, “No Parking 8AM – 6PM Mon. thru Adultery.” One cop says amid a gathering of policemen [after they see a crime], “Maybe we should call the cops.” OY, what a hoot! Plus there’s plenty of ham-fisted humor about butt-banging, size of the male member, California Gov. Ah-nuld, Mexican farmers, the Rapture, and a Mexican guy named “Jesus” who’s really…the son of G*d! Golly, what guffaws!

        Further, Jessica Alba proves once again how gosh-awful CUTE and yummy-hot she is while displaying minimal acting ability. Winona R pours herself into a scene where she’s passionately French-kissing a ventriloquist’s dummy. Oh the humanity! I actually felt sorry for her. I would rather eviscerate myself with a rusty lawnmower than sit through Ten again.

        If there’s somebody you wish to excise from your life, to cast him or her into the Abyss of the Formerly Known, give that special someone a DVD of The Ten. Give this wretched excuse for a “movie” to a friend and make an instant enemy.


        • I’ve seen video on dailymotion of Ryder promoting Lost Souls via E! interview, but heard the same thing about her reluctance to promote it. She was pretty much MIA for the recent Homefront as well…

          I’ll sadly concur with your assessment of the cringe-inducing “The Ten”. The only saving grace for Ryder’s participation in it IMO is that she was in two of the ‘better’ vignettes (relatively speaking). And Shemp, you’re very restrained :) in describing what she does with the puppet… anyone curious should search on Youtube.

          I keep telling myself that the actress who gambled on Heathers (and won) will of course tend to pick other risky, ‘out there’ comedies (Sex and Death 101, The Ten) and lose…


    • Be Afraid! Be Very Afraid! The “Oscar Jinx”!


      Name: Kim Basinger

      Oscar For: L.A. Confidential (1997)

      Where Is She Now: Like many of the women on this list, it’s difficult to determine if aging or the Oscar jinx was responsible for Kim Basinger’s career decline. She was a smokin’ hot 43-year-old when she won her Best Supporting Actress award, and now she’s 56. While still far more attractive than most women her age, the acting opportunities are growing increasingly slim (especially since her current demographic forces her to compete with the likes of Meryl Streep and Helen Mirren). She played Eminem’s white trash mom in 8 Mile, but following that up with Cellular and The Sentinel didn’t help her did not work for her. Most of her work these days is limited to television and indy films. A perfect example of the Oscar curse manifested when Basinger was cast in 2009’s The Informers, a film co-starring Billy Bob Thornton, Mickey Rourke and Winona Ryder. Despite the impressive cast, the movie never moved past limited release, and it only grossed a paltry $300,000.


  2. Watching a Woody Allen movie is worse than getting a tooth extraction without novocane! How can this third rate hack keep making movies that his ugly ass gets to star in?


  3. 10 Actors Who Completely Wasted Their Careers:

    8. Winona Ryder

    Winona Ryder became a crowd and critical favorite after her starring role in Beetlejuice and went on to cement that profile by starring in popular films like Heathers, Edward Scissorhands, Dracula, Age Of Innocence, and Reality Bites. She was even supposed to star as Mary Corleone in The Godfather Part III and undoubtedly would have improved the ridiculed film had she not pulled out because of exhaustion.

    In the mid 1990s she starred in the box office bomb The Crucible and the disappointing Alien Resurrection, but with her talent Ryder could easily have overcome those setbacks.

    But then in December 2001, Ryder was arrested for shoplifting $5500 worth of clothes from a Beverly Hills department store. During the highly publicized trial Ryder was accused of being on various drugs to explain why a millionaire would steal clothing, and she was found guilty on most of the charges and had to serve probation.

    Though she has since worked steadily in lower budget films or bit parts in blockbusters (like 2009′s Star Trek) her career has never recovered from the stigma of her bizarre crimes.


    • The author of that list picked a terribly sensationalist title for it, and made some questionable choices… I don’t care how many bad movies De Niro makes near his career’s end, he doesn’t belong on a ‘completely wasted his career’ list like this, and especially not at #1! (Ahead of Lindsay Lohan? Seriously?)

      I also don’t agree that Ryder ‘completely wasted’ her career. ‘Could have been a bigger star’ or ‘Could have stayed A-List/near A-List longer’ I could (sadly) agree with. But ‘wasted’? Not really. If anything, she capitalized on what would have to be considered, at least partly, luck (Beetlejuice was her 3rd movie, and she actually turned it down before reconsidering; Heathers was truly lightning in a bottle, considering the relatively unremarkable future careers of Lehmann and Waters) to really strike it big while she was young, and stay relevant for far longer than many teen stars do.


    • 10 Amazing Actresses Hollywood Don’t Know What To Do With:

      Winona Ryder

      Winona Ryder may be a convicted kleptomaniac and a kook, but they forgave RDJ, and now he’s the highest paid actor on Earth. For Ryder, a two-time Oscar nominee that was regarded as an exciting, vibrant talent in her youth, thankless roles in films like Star Trek (which was a major critical and commercial success, but it gave Ryder nothing to do) and Homefront (a Jason Statham action vehicle? Come on!) is the best she can currently get.

      Only supporting roles in The Iceman, in which Ryder easily holds her own against the powerhouse that is Michael Shannon, and Black Swan, which finds the actress scarily parodying her lot as a faded former star, have given her much to do post-arrest. It’s difficult to know whether the 2001 trial for shoplifting has been the sole reason for Ryder’s fall from grace, or if it’s her stubborn refusal to stay in her 20s forever that’s seen the offers dry up, but she certainly has the acting skills to get back to where she once was.


    • They Threw It Away – Self-Destruction and Acting Careers:

      I agree Winona did far more with her career than she had any right to have done–she is not an exceprionally talented actress, even thought he camera loves her. She was twice up for Oscars (for Little Women and The Age of Innocence) and was even a favorite for the latter performance, though she got beat out by Anna Paquin. Had she done a Barbara Walters confessional after the shoplifting incident and admitted she was f***ed up and had made a horrible mistake, she would have been able to revive her career; instead, she stuck to her stupid and unbelievable story she was shoplifiting “as preparation for a role”, and kept waiting for people to forgive her with out apologizing, and no one did.

      by: Anonymous reply 56 01/06/2014 @ 04:43PM


    • 9 Celebrities Who Committed Career Suicide!:

      1. Winona Ryder

      Winona Ryder was a huge film star in the late ‘80s and all through the ‘90s. She landed a number of diverse leading roles in many well-received films including “Edward Scissorhands,” “Reality Bites” and “Girl Interrupted;” however, after getting arrested for shoplifting at a Saks Fifth Avenue department store, she became better known for her personal struggles with depression and anxiety. The arrest also put an end to Ryder’s promising career as a heavyweight dramatic actress.


    • Future of Movie Stars: Who Will Shine? Who Will Fade Away?


      I never of the shoplifting incident being the thing that ruined Winona Ryder’s career. In looking at her IMDb page, it seems her peak years were the late 1980s to mid-1990s and if someone is a doe-eyed ingenue, outgrowing that stage in life is a major career challenge. She was already well on the downslope long before 2001. It reminds me a bit of Meg Ryan and how the Russell Crowe affair gets blamed for completely ruining her career, when being a cutesy rom-com sweetheart approaching forty and the awful plastic surgery she went on to have, were factors, too. She tried some serious dramas well before the scandal, but the nominations didn’t follow. There were other actresses close in age who were more popular, got more critical acclaim, hadn’t jacked up their faces, or some combination of all three.


  4. Gone Girl: The Disappearance of Winona Ryder


    Thoughtful retrospective from a sad fan…


  5. Winona Ryder’s shoplifting incident makes the list of WatchMojo’s Top 10 Career Finishing Scandals


  6. Winona Ryder to star in an ’80s-set Netflix supernatural thriller:

    Ryder is expected to play a mom whose 2-year-old son vanishes. The eight-episode series would mark Ryder’s first regular TV role.


  7. 9 Actresses Who Are In Desperate Need Of A Career Comeback:

    By Fame 10 Staff on June 15, 2015 1:24 pm

    Winona Ryder

    During the ‘90s, Winona Ryder was one of the most famous actresses in Hollywood. Since her shoplifting arrest, however, she’s all but disappeared. She has only appeared in a handful of films and her last big role was in “Black Swan,” as an aging ballet star.

    Ryder may say that she has no interest in being a movie star, but we think she needs to make a comeback. She’s just so talented. It would be a complete waste if we were to just let her fade into oblivion.

    Renee Zellweger

    Renee Zellweger was considered one of the most talented actresses of her generation. She won an Academy Award, a BAFTA Award, three Golden Globe Awards, and three Screen Actors Guild Awards, all before she turned 40. Since she won the Oscar, she’s stopped receiving those quality roles that are what made her famous to begin with. Now she only makes headlines because of her ever-changing face.

    We think Zellweger is due for a comeback. Acting abilities like hers just don’t go away. Just because she’s gotten older doesn’t mean that she should be cast aside like some sort of has-been.


  8. Beetlejuice 2: Winona Ryder set to return:

    Winona Ryder is set to rejoin Michael Keaton for Tim Burton’s Beetlejuice 2…

    Just because we’ve not heard anything on the project for a little while, it doesn’t mean there hasn’t been progress. Plans remain afoot for Beetlejuice 2, which Tim Burton may well be getting to after he’s finished directing his current project, Miss Peregrine’s Home For Peculiar Children.

    Michael Keaton is set to reprise the title role for the new movie, which is being penned by Seth Grahame-Smith and David Katzenberg. And now Winona Ryder too has confirmed she’s set to return for the movie.

    “I think I can confirm it because Tim Burton did this interview”, she said on Late Night With Seth Meyers in the US.

    “It was very hush-hush, top secret”, she said, “and then he was doing some press for Big Eyes and he did an on-camera interview and he said, ‘oh yeah, we’re doing it and Winona’s going to be in it’. So can I say…? I mean if he said it. But I really don’t know much more than anybody else”.

    Which is a yes, right?

    We find out soon we’d imagine if Beetlejuice 2 is indeed next on Tim Burton’s docket. Maybe if we say the name of it three times, it’ll be showtime just a little bit faster…


  9. Why “Edward Scissorhands” would never get made today http://huff.to/1PdprsV




    For the last few years of the ’80s and the bulk of the ’90s, there was no young Hollywood actress who was as compelling as Winona Ryder. Picking up two Oscar nominations for her roles, providing pitch-perfect voice-over narration for the majority of her films, and serving as an aspirational fashion icon (and one who carried a brainy depth to boot), Ryder was a high-ranking member of Hollywood’s A-list. While her work in the new millennium has not been as strong as her string of hits in the ’80s and ’90s (such is the career trajectory for many a young woman working in the film industry), you can’t deny her extremely brilliant — and surprisingly diverse — roles toward the end of the last century.


  11. Heroines of Cinema: The Life Cycle of an Actress


    According to the old adage, a Hollywood actress’s career ends at 40. Of course, this is an adage, not a scientific formula. If you are good enough (Meryl Streep) or famous enough (Sandra Bullock), there is still hope. And the adage only applies to traditional leading ladies — if you are a character actress, forty may be when your career takes off. Judi Dench received her first Oscar nomination at the age of 64, and five more within the following decade.

    But when it comes to your classic Hollywood star, it appears there is some truth in the matter. If we look at some of the biggest female box-office draws of the 80s and 90s – Meg Ryan (aged 50), Demi Moore (49), Michelle Pfeiffer and Sharon Stone (both 54) – it is clear that they are no longer appearing in lead roles in commercial films, as once they did. By contrast, their peers such as Brad Pitt (48), George Clooney (51), Denzel Washington (57) and Bruce Willis (57) are all still major box office draws.

    Of course, some would say it is no great shame that the likes of Demi Moore can no longer command our attention at the multiplex, but that is beside the point. Hollywood has happily replaced Demi and co with such questionable luminaries as Katherine Heigl, Scarlett Johansson and Megan Fox, and whatever we think of their acting skills, the existence of a gaping gender inequality in terms of career opportunity cannot be denied.

    Why is this so? Partly, it comes down to simple chauvinism, and the fact that the Hollywood studio machine has always fetishized youth and beauty in the female roles it has green-lit and subsequently cast. But this is not the whole story. Sharon Stone is incapable of being cast as Denzel Washington’s love interest, not because she is too old, but because mainstream commercial cinema has played a primary role in shaping the general public’s perception of what a 54 year old woman is – what she feels, thinks, is capable of.

    This can be demonstrated by taking a willfully unscientific look at the career of an actress currently at the dreaded age of 40. Step forward, Winona Ryder – who just happens to be interviewed on Indiewire today. Through her example, allow me to demonstrate how Hollywood conspires to make unwholesome use of its brightest female stars in seven easy steps.

    1 – Become a star
    Winona pulled this off with admirable speed when breakout roles in two 1988 releases – Tim Burton’s “Beetlejuice” and cult hit “Heathers” – made her a hot property at the age of 18. Subsequent performances in “Edward Scissorhands”, Francis Ford Coppola’s “Dracula” and Martin Scorsese’s “The Age of Innocence” – which yielded an Oscar nomination – confirmed her as a bona fide star. But for how long?

    2 – Lose your edge
    The problem with breaking into the mainstream is that it tends not to have many interesting parts on offer, especially for women. And thus, Winona made a series of bland choices. From “How to Make an American Quilt” to “The House of Spirits”, a succession of mid-90s roles saw her star persona start to lose its edge. And when that happens, it is only a matter of time before you can expect to…

    3 – Be over-shadowed
    A Hollywood actress is never too young to be upstaged by a younger pretender. This happened for Winona in damning fashion with 1999’s “Girl, Interrupted”, which she produced and starred in. Widely seen as her big comeback film, attention was quickly drawn to supporting player Angelina Jolie, then a relative unknown. Critical acclaim led to an Oscar for Jolie, not to mention a subsequent career as the biggest female star of the 21st century. While Ryder has only ever expressed praise for her young co-star, the All About Eve-esque scenario (which cast the then 29 year old Ryder as an ageing, fading has-been) was lapped up by the press and certainly did her no favors.

    4 – Fulfill middle-aged male fantasies
    With Angelina now on hand to satisfy male audiences’ bedroom fantasies, Hollywood needed to cast Winona in a new role. Regrettably this came in the form of 2000’s execrable “Autumn in New York”. Starring opposite Richard Gere – twenty three years her senior – she played a terminally ill young woman whose tragic early death is not without its benefits – her brief romance with Gere’s character allows him to see the truth about love and the error of his formerly womanizing ways. That’s positively feminist, right?

    5 – Play a mother
    We’re not here to gossip, but suffice it to say that Winona’s career in the early 2000s had its tricky moments. Nonetheless, she was only 37 when she played the mother of then 31 year old Zachary Quinto in 2009’s “Star Trek” reboot. Of course, she also appears with a child version of Quinto’s character, making sense of the age anomaly, but the role was significant nonetheless. Once cast in the Mother role – by which I mean not simply a woman with children, but one whose motherhood is defined by its supporting context, with no story of its own – it can be difficult for actresses to return to parts which acknowledge a woman’s agency, sexuality, and god forbid, career.

    6 – Play a slut
    That is unless you are willing to play a less forgiving role than the classic romantic heroine. Many people were surprised when Winona was cast as one of the female leads in Ron Howard’s 2009 film “The Dilemma” – until they read the synopsis. She plays a woman who cheats on her husband with a hot younger man, and judging by reviews (I admit, I haven’t seen it) the film is hardly concerned with giving a balanced account of why a woman might be led to cheat.

    7 – Play a psycho
    Tired and depressed by stages one to six? Behold your fate. The professional ballet world is one of the few arenas with a worse reputation than Hollywood for cutthroat ageism. Still, there are physical justifications, and one assumes that not all prima ballerinas retired against their will take the psychotic approach exhibited by Winona’s character in Darren Aronofsky’s “Black Swan”. Many critics were delighted with her performance, but I found it a depressing example of casting laziness, for an actress often unfairly characterized as fragile and odd. She only narrowly avoids the fate often required by Hollywood for a character both female and crazy – death.

    Before we get too depressed on Winona’s behalf, bear in mind that I have mostly been discussing the worst tendencies of commercial cinema, and that any actress with even a passing taste of A-list stardom should have no trouble finding interesting work in the independent sector or on stage, should they so wish. Indeed, Ryder told Indiewire that she is looking forward to the “Baby Jane” stage of her career, demonstrating a wry awareness of how her career has progressed and perhaps even an excitement at freeing herself from such an unforgiving cycle.

    The real victims here are not the most wealthy, beautiful and privileged women in the world, but the mainstream cinema goers who are fed little other than these bland and often damaging female roles — versions of womanhood that consistently decay and expire before their time. They deserve better – and Meryl Streep can’t do it all by herself. With Winona Ryder and countless other actresses raring to join the charge, it is time to give the traditional life cycle of an actress a shot in the arm.


  12. Dana Delaney was waaay too old to have played Veronica- she was already 30 and known for playing grown- ass women on grownup television shows. And the notion that anyone would have once thought that Justine Bateman was a preferable casting choice over Winona Ryder for a motion picture is pretty hilarious. I guess you can see here that Daniel Waters could write a script, but he obviously didn’t know shit about casting. I could totally have seen Heather Graham as Heather Chandler, though Kim Walker was the epitome of soulless bitchiness. I do agree that a Heathers sequel was a ‘cockamamey’ idea. In fact, I feel the same way about a Heathers musical, but to each their own.


  13. Tim Burton and Joel Silver “honored” with cringeworthy ’90s mockumentaries


    That same year, HBO unwisely decided to promote the release of Tim Burton’s Edward Scissorhands with a half-hour mockumentary by director Roland Mesa, who went on to helm the third Revenge Of The Nerds movie but not a great deal else. In The Director’s Chair: The Man Who Invented Edward Scissorhands is a queasy concoction indeed: equal parts commercial and hyper-extended comedy sketch. The central conceit of Mesa’s film is that it’s a probing look at the entire life and career of Tim Burton, including interviews with actors pretending to be the director’s parents and even some mock “home movies” (à la The Wonder Years) supposedly depicting Burton’s 1960s childhood, when he was a dour little boy surrounded by perversely cheerful relatives. The oddest part of all this is that not everyone seems to be in on the joke. Winona Ryder, Johnny Depp, and especially Vincent Price give sweet, sincere interviews, while Alan Arkin, Danny Elfman, and Stan Winston give “wacky” interviews. And then Jim Brown and Heather Thomas do some sort of ill-advised Thing With Two Heads parody, and there’s a running joke about a John Wayne Gacy-style killer clown. It’s all certainly something. Just what, however, is opaque.


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